#poc kotlc

[keeper-of-the-lost-dadwin]

Actually every character is brown/black because the term pale is pretty subjective and if Sophie is surrounded by people of color and one herself she’d be more likely to describe as pale without meaning white.

[the-way-astray]

genuinely don't believe they will get that far, but if they do, i hope the kotlc moviemakers don't do the thing with tam and linh's hair. and maruca's

[cogaytes]

no bc why do none of the poc characters canonically get bitches

[sillyguy-supreme]

sometimes i reread the series and it becomes clear that shannon did not hire a sensitivity reader

[bookwyrminspiration]

I felt the need to inform you that the Vackers are Desi in my mind, and specifically Pakistani Muslims. Also, I believe that Alden married into the Vakcers.This is solely because I think that the image of Alden trying to wear Shalwar Kameez and tripping all over it is very funny to me.

From⚙️

!! I've seen Desi Vackers art and concepts floating around in the fandom before and it is truly a stunning concept--if you look up the tag "desi vackers" you'll get a sample of them. Though I will admit I personally don't know enough to know the nuance of what Pakistani Muslims would entail, but I'd be more than happy to learn and hear about it.

I also don't think you're alone in having some fun with Alden--when people aren't hating on him, he's usually gotten involved in some innocent antics or silly situations purely on accident. Hardly anyone can take him seriously anymore :)

He's very earnest and also a mess of a person and I think it's. very fun to think about--and I can just imagine how eager he'd be to marry Della and how he'd try to stay composed (and then utterly failing and tripping all over)

10/10 Desi Vackers is a stellar idea and I love seeing what people think of and create for them!!

[midasx9]

Pinterest Kotlc (and it’s flaws)

pinterest kotlc gives me whiplash every time I go on there because as someone who spends most of my kotlc time on tumblr the worlds are just. so drastically different.

pinterest kotlc has a few main points that make up most of the posts. it includes: sokeefe being some monumental, life-changing, beautiful ship that is just absolutely heart-shattering every time someone thinks about it. even tho it’s literally just. flirty bad boy x oblivious girl who is a little feisty towards him

meanwhile most tumblr posts are pretty normal abt sokeefe or are casual enjoyers of the ship

(such as this post)

another: aggressive fitz hatred. they act like he is so terrible to the point where you would think that he would’ve tried to kill sophie. like. bffr. they act like the mc’s ex-boyfriend (who she is on pretty good terms with now) is just the biggest villain of the whole story. it makes me very mad. it also comes with the hatred of sofitz and i just think that’s uncalled for. sofitz was a good ship and so is sokeefe. just because one didn’t work out does not mean the other is inherently so much awesomer and better than the dogshit one that just didn’t work out in the end.

also, most people on kotlc pinterest just blatantly ignore the canon things that are happening in the story (most recently stellarlune) to hate on fitz!! like, at this point you are hating the pinterest fanon character but take it out on the canon fitz!

but yeah.

kotlc pinterest is basically just discourse on the fitz/keefe thing and most are leaning towards sokeefe.

I could also talk about the millennial humor, the poorly made memes, disregard to potential queer or poc representation, the mischaracterization of things like anger issues or poor communication… yeah.

other than those things, once you get past those layers you find some pretty funny and good posts. like these!

lmk if you want more posts about pinterest kotlc or other websites kotlc fandoms!!

[homo-beehive]

sometimes i think about keeper of the lost cities (it is my special interest) and go “holy shit how is this a middle grade series”

so here is an incomplete list of things that happen in kotlc that would get a kotlc movie’s rating moved to R (read at your own risk).

kidnapping

torture

horse copulation

graphic violence

graphic birth

unspecified but apparently flavorful cursing

human experimentation

body horror

very detailed depictions of almost-deadly allergic reactions

non-consensual drugging. a lot of it. of CHILDREN

and here is a list of things that i think the US government would hate about kotlc

criticism of government and discussion of how one should handle being in a position of power (you should not enjoy being powerful)

elfin society has a eugenics problem and this is consistently criticized

queer coding isn’t even coding atp marella is GAY gay

and finally, criticisms i have of kotlc.

weird eurocentric beauty standards

tam and linh. great characters. CONSTANTLY fetishized bc they’re asian. sophie calls them k-pop idols, anime characters, etc. from what i can tell, though, they’re vietnamese. LET THEM BE VIETNAMESE WITHOUT COMPARING THEM TO EVERY EAST ASIAN STEREOTYPE

everyone is thin. LITERALLY EVERYONE. why is everyone thin and why does thin equal beautiful. shannon messenger explain your biases challenge

there are SO many poc in the books, but elf culture is shown as a monolith. show the cultural nuances that come from before humans and elves separated. i want to see the human influences in their clothing, hairstyles, accents, vernacular. have elves who have historically lived in china wearing something similar to hanfu. give tam and linh ao dai. give me a nigerian elf with fulani braids. give me culture through style and bodies and voices and music. i want to see it. it’s beautiful and it is NOT shown enough

dex needs more page time.

alden and della are NOT criticized enough. they are complicit. they are part of the problem in the lost cities. they are not all bad, but they are not all good either. CRITICIZE THEM, SHANNON.

[ramiethewizard]

I have many critiques on Keeper of the Lost Cities. Don’t get me wrong, I love it as a series. But like any series, there are both obvious and unobvious flaws. Since I finally have a place online to talk about them I thought I’d share my thoughts! (Disclaimer: this is not bashing on Shannon Messenger or the series in any way!)

1. Too many protagonists

The series was fairly okay with the original gang in the earlier books. That group being Sophie, Keefe, Fitz, Biana, and Dex. There was a chance to connect with all of the characters and grow on each of them. I know I know, characters like Biana and Dex were still pushed aside a bit but they had a better chance at being involved again. But then only more and more protagonists joined. Adding Tam and Linh was iffy, but fine. Then you add Marella, Maruca, Wylie, Stina, all those people. We don’t have a chance to connect with the characters.

2. Obvious favoritism

A few people have pointed this out already, and I thought I’d do the same. Shannon has very clear favorites of the series - which is fine, don’t get me wrong. But sometimes it’s used a little too much. Keefe is a very obvious favorite. We constantly focus on him and his story. At this point, Sophie AND Keefe are the protagonists. I love Keefe, but I want to learn about the injustices and discrimination of Bad Matches from Dex. I want to learn about the expectations of being a Vacker from Fitz and Biana. See what I’m saying?

3. Little plots abandoned

I feel like there have been so many times where Shannon starts this little idea and then throws it away. If you reread the books, you seem to find so many instances where there’s something, and then it’s just abandoned. For example, Magnate Leto (Forkle) says in I think Exile how he doesn’t have a wife and he seems quite sad about it. Or the time in…Flashback I believe where we meet Tinker. Tinker is such an interesting character. She freaks out when Forkle talks about explosives and he said that he wouldn’t make her build them - ‘not again’. HUH? And we’ve gotten no more out of it.

4. Overly focused on romance

Probably my biggest pet peeve with the series is that it is so so focused on romance. Having romance in the series is fine but there’s so much. I feel like Sophie barely even has any character left. You can tell that Shannon was just really excited to write the romantic relationships because even in the first book (WHEN SHES TWELVE) there are already intense moments. And the biggest thing is that characters like Keefe and Fitz (the love interests) are so much more important than characters like Biana and Dex (the friends). It’s a weird thing because Sophie should be apart of both groups but there’s just a weird focus on the guys that she’s into.

5. Lack of diversity

This is something that I think should just be improved in general. Most of the protagonists are very stereotypical and don’t have any diversity. Most of the main characters are white - which is fine but when it gets to be that ALL of the protagonists are, it just gets a little…you know? I mean, Tam, Linh, and Wylie are not white but they’re also not focused on at all in the series. It’s one of the reasons why people headcanon the Vackers to be POC so much. There’s also no LGBTQ+ characters - which again, fine for the most part but also…people of the queer community are incredibly common and the KOTLC characters seem so…not straight. So the fact that it’s been like ten books and there hasn’t been anything is just a little eh. Same with mental health, or physical abilities. Just a lack of diversity.

I love this series a lot, but like anything, it can always improve. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[kale-of-the-forbidden-cities]

omg i love that imma steal those

I really want to know what everybody’s favorite kotlc headcanons are.

One of my personal favorites is that the gnomes can grow flowers from their hair, and that their hair can turn orange/brown in autumn

[im-cool]

my only requirements for kotlc movie casting

somewhat age accurate, I just want to avoid another PJO movie disaster

the vackers are poc. no context needed.

no white washing any characters that are poc.

dex and Sophie are around the same height

[multi-fandom-lunatic]

Representation in Keeper of the Lost Cities: A Critical Analysis

NOTE: This essay was written was originally a rant on the KotLC fanbase Discord. I copy-pasted my points into Chat-GPT and asked to make this into essay format. This is an AI assisted piece. Please don't think, however, that my points are any less valid. NOTE: This is also on the Keeper of the Lost Cities reddit.

Please add your thoughts!

Introduction

In discussing representation within Shannon Messenger's Keeper of the Lost Cities (KOTLC) series, it's imperative to address the nuances and complexities of how various groups are portrayed. While the series enjoys widespread popularity, it also reveals significant shortcomings in the representation of People of Color (POC), LGBTQ+ individuals, and other marginalized groups. This essay explores these issues, highlighting both the problematic aspects and potential areas for improvement.

Representation of People of Color (POC)

One of the most glaring issues in KOTLC is the limited and stereotypical portrayal of POC characters. The primary POC characters in the series—Tam, Linh, Wylie, and Maruca—are few, especially considering the statistical likelihood of a more diverse population. Even more concerning is how these characters are represented. For instance, upon their introduction, Tam and Linh are compared to anime characters and K-pop idols in Sophie's mind. This reinforces harmful generalizations and stereotypes about East Asians, which is both insensitive and problematic.

Moreover, despite elves in KOTLC not having countries or distinct cultures beyond "elven culture," which is portrayed in a predominantly European manner, there are inconsistencies in how racial representation is handled. For example, official artwork by Laura Hollingsworth depicts the Song family in front of an Asian temple, despite the series' premise that elves do not adhere to human cultural practices. This selective representation is problematic and reflects a lack of cultural sensitivity.

Stereotyping and Racism

Tam and Linh's characters fall into several Asian stereotypes. They have strict parents, a common trope for East Asian characters, and Linh is depicted as a bubbly, sweet girl without much depth, until her sudden, seemingly random outburst in "Stellarlune." These characterizations do not allow for the full depth and complexity that POC characters deserve.

The portrayal of gnomes in the series is even more troubling. Described as brown-skinned, unpaid workers who do manual labor for the elves, this depiction carries disturbing parallels to historical and contemporary issues of racial exploitation. The gnomes are presented as happy to serve their white, elf masters, which echoes deeply racist narratives. Despite being able to leave, the gnomes have no viable alternatives, essentially forcing them into servitude.

If Shannon Messenger chose not to include queer characters, it wouldn't necessarily be harmful, just lacking positive representation. However, employing Laura Hollingsworth (LH), known for her homophobic views, exacerbates the issue. LH, a conservative Christian, has openly opposed queer identities and followed white supremacist accounts. Her biases are evident in her work. By continuing to collaborate with LH, Messenger not only excludes queer representation but also tacitly supports an artist who opposes it. She has even addressed this. This perpetuates homophobia, and Messenger should be held accountable for her choices in supporting such a figure within the KOTLC series.

LGBTQ+ Representation

As an LGBTQ+ individual, the lack of queer representation in KOTLC is particularly disappointing. While it is not inherently homophobic to exclude queer characters, in a series as character-focused as KOTLC, it becomes a notable omission. Early books could have integrated queer characters naturally, but introducing one now might feel forced and tokenistic.

Characters like Linh and Marella have been perceived as queer-coded by some fans, but there is little textual evidence to support this. Queer audiences should not have to read subtext to find representation. Additionally, the series employs an artist, Laura Hollingsworth, who has expressed homophobic views. Shannon Messenger's response to concerns about Hollingsworth's involvement was minimal and failed to address the deeper issues.

Body Image and Ableism

KOTLC also perpetuates harmful beauty standards. The elves are depicted as perfect, which often translates to being slender, muscular, and fitting Western beauty ideals. This can negatively impact young readers who already struggle with body image. Additionally, the series lacks representation of disabled characters, implicitly suggesting that physical perfection is an elven trait, thereby excluding those who do not fit this mold.

Conclusion

In conclusion, Shannon Messenger's Keeper of the Lost Cities series falls short in its representation of POC, LGBTQ+ individuals, and other marginalized groups. The series reinforces stereotypes, perpetuates harmful beauty standards, and fails to include diverse identities in meaningful ways. Addressing these issues requires a commitment to sensitivity and inclusion, such as hiring sensitivity readers and reconsidering collaborations with problematic artists. By doing so, Messenger could create a more inclusive and representative world that resonates with all readers.

[the-way-astray]

hey. hey guys. quick question to the 99% of you that headcanon the vackers as poc. what race/ethnicity do you usually picture them as? i'm just curious, and i know elves don't typically have race or whatever, but in terms of physical appearance what race/ethnicity do you personally see them as?

[parrotxx]

when i first read kotlc, i always imagined the vackers as being poc, and when i finally saw the official art i was like "wait what the fuck"

[sillyguy-supreme]

i’ve noticed an influx of new fans, so i thought i’d put together a list of resources on fandom racism and racism within the writing of kotlc, as well as accounts who talk about it regularly :)

from @cogaytes:

fandom woobification of tam song

the song twins & keepblr characterization

tam song’s outfits and stereotypes

from @soryasongsaa:

on tam song in fandom and the submissive/effeminate asian stereotype

on linh song and the china doll/fragile asian girl stereotype

tam song, gender, and western bias

the weird stereotypes of the song twins (this is technically a joint post with @cogaytes but i wanted to get both of their reblogs on this matter)

an analysis on the official art of the song family

other users:

fandom treatment of characters of color (from @toxtt-kotlc)

why do people headcanon white characters as poc? (from @bookwyrminspiration) (note: while this does reference old discourse from 2023, it’s also the best explanation i could find.)

@shangri-la-rights has compiled a lot of excellent posts on racism within the writing of the series itself, although xe hasn’t been active in quite some time.

these resources are meant to educate new users, so if i missed any posts or accounts, feel free to add on in the notes :)

[when-wax-wings-melt]

worst part of canon

worst part of fanon

for kotlc please please please (as someone who is slowly entering the fandom)

1:

leaving out, like, the issues regarding rep + lowkey racism and such... I'll say the dropped/2D characterizations for like, a LOT of the characters (esp the poc but not getting into that). What shannon did was set up a super interesting universe with compelling characters, start off their arcs with them being stereotypical (ie biana as the girly girl, keefe the jokester, etc) and then build from that to develop their personalities.

And I have no problem with that, except it seems that along the line she forgot what she was doing. biana stopped being her own person and started being an accessory to what other people needed. keefe became this sad guy who doesn't know when to stop. people lost individual motivation and goals. (if this was intentional or as a result of sophie's narration and therefore warping the narrative to her pov those are conversations I can accept but not entirely, considering idk if that was what shannon actually intended)

and I like how some of them turned out, but most of them just fall flat. I'm fixated on him rn so I'll say an egregious example of this is fitz, and how he was set up as this lovely perfect guy on a pedestal (stereotype) who was shown to lose his temper and not know how to control his emotions (development) and then... it was kind of dropped? Idk. makes me mad.

2:

This one's pretty easy. People in this fandom (I'll say myself included, but I think I'm doing better w this) tend to take their opinions and often headcanons as indisputable truth. they don't often listen to other povs, including ship wars and in terms of characters and such. the ship wars in this fandom are kind of hellish. thankfully, keepblr tends to be much better about this (or at least my circle here) but there's def issues with it as well

[thedevilortheangel]

Okay, so I’ve seen….some pretty aggressive rants about kotlc in general. Like, on Pinterest and on here. And other platforms.

And I AM not at any means calling ANYONE out! Like, I love you all, and I love everyone else too.

And I’ll probably get hate for this post anyway, since my anxiety self can see that in the future.

But here’s my take on it.

Kotlc is a kids book, right, and yes, sometime…..I don’t agree with Shannon. Like, how She doesn’t put any diversity in the books, and we all know that kids need to learn that’s it’s okay to be you.

But one thing my mom said to me, the awesome mom that she is, told me that…..it’s a kids book.

What would happen if some homophobic parent saw their kid reading that. Think of it. I mean- yeah…..I kinda hate how Shannon didn’t put any diversity in the books, but…..my mom does have a point. Shannon was probably under a lot of pressure when she thought if LGBTQ+.

Number two: Shanon is just….one author. She can’t make everyone happy. Like, I think she’s under a lot of of pressure with this as it is. With deadlines and actually needing to write everyday, at least a little bit.

Number three: the way I want to see it I’d kotlc is Lot like our Earth. Like, there’s millions of things that are wrong in the Lost Cites, and uh, have you seen the news? There is a lot of problems in that world, and on ours too, so Shannon I think is trying to project that in her books.

Number four, and I promise the last one: people….tend to forget that….Sophie and all the others are teenagers.

They make mistakes, they fall in love for the first time, maybe they make a mistake a breakup, and…..people forget that.

I mean, most of you I would think are teenagers, so uh, do y’all agree with me?

Yeah, um, I’m tired, and maybe I’m being a little bit biased and I am maybe 100% getting hate for this, but I said what I think.

(Im also very sorry that this was so long. I’m not angry. I’m just putting my own way of seeing things. Kotlc and other books are not for everybody, so be free to love whatever you love, and you do you my peeps.)

Edit: I also kind of hate how Shannon didn’t put any POCs and different kind of body types so…yeah